The inner dimension

http://www.soulconnection.net/quiet_center_of_stillness.html

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Life is too important to be taken seriously lachen lachen

	Quote:
	The state before there was a universe is in you, The timeless, One Life. ET

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Life is too important to be taken seriously lachen lachen

Quote:

Happiness is the very nature of the Self; happiness and the Self are not different. There is no happiness in any object of the world. We imagine through our ignorance that we derive happiness from objects. When the mind goes out, it experiences misery. In truth, when its desires are fulfilled, it returns to its own place and enjoys the happiness that is the Self. Similarly, in the states of sleep, samadhi and fainting, and when the object desired is obtained or the object disliked is removed, the mind becomes inward-turned, and enjoys pure Self-Happiness. Thus the mind moves without rest alternately going out of the Self and returning to it. Under the tree the shade is pleasant; out in the open the heat is scorching. A person who has been going about in the sun feels cool when he reaches the shade. Someone who keeps on going from the shade into the sun and then back into the shade is a fool. A wise man stays permanently in the shade. Similarly, the mind of the one who knows the truth does not leave Brahman. The mind of the ignorant, on the contrary, revolves in the world, feeling miserable, and for a little time returns to Brahman to experience happiness. In fact, what is called the world is only thought. When the world disappears, i.e. when there is no thought, the mind experiences happiness; and when the world appears, it goes through misery.

Ramana Maharshi

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Life is too important to be taken seriously lachen lachen

"In fact, what is called the world is only thought."

Nisargadatta says something similar, or identical. Everything these two guys say is starting to clarify for me, but this is the one idea that I find strangest, that the world is a product of mind. Do I need someone to translate this for me, or does it mean just what it says? Cuz all my life it has seemed to me that the world exists independently of my perception of it.

Something I see is that there are the 5 senses which are designed to pick up specific information. This information is translated into signals which are sent to the brain. The brain interprets the signals.

So what is experienced as being "out there in the world" is actually an interpretation happening inside the brain.

It reminds me of a test designed to determine what light is. Using one test, light is determined to be a wave. Using another test, light is determined to be a particle.

What is true? It depends on what device / condition is used to detect information and how that information is interpreted. A new type of device and another condition might reveal a different kind of data which could be used to interpret light in a new way.

And when thought is used to interpret, lol lol

well, take a look at the various obvious "truths" about USA health care reform submitted by brains which are interpretting. That alone can bring interpretations into question - at least in this brain.

I might have come across an answer to my own question this morning in 'I Am That'.

Somebody asks Nisargadatta:

Q: Surely there is a factual world common to us all.

N: The world of things of energy and matter? Even if there *were* such a common world of things and forces, it is not the world in which we live. Ours is a world of feelings and ideas, of attractions and repulsions, of scales of values, of motives and incentives; a mental world altogether.

So when he says 'mind creates the world', I think I would express the same idea this way: "My mind creates a subjective experience of the world which really distorts the reality of it."

Whatcha think?

i think the universe arises from the center of our being

from the inner dimension

this happens through the body/mind

but i also think

i haven't a clue what i'm talking about lol lol

_________________
Life is too important to be taken seriously lachen lachen

dobro wrote:

I might have come across an answer to my own question this morning in 'I Am That'.

Somebody asks Nisargadatta:

Q: Surely there is a factual world common to us all.

N: The world of things of energy and matter? Even if there *were* such a common world of things and forces, it is not the world in which we live. Ours is a world of feelings and ideas, of attractions and repulsions, of scales of values, of motives and incentives; a mental world altogether.

So when he says 'mind creates the world', I think I would express the same idea this way: "My mind creates a subjective experience of the world which really distorts the reality of it."

Whatcha think?

Its a nice idea! But where does the idea exist? In the mind of course.
This is a really deep question and Id like to explore it with you.

Can you experience anything outside of the mind?

This question of course insists that we ask, What is the mind?

Right? Because if we dont know where the mind ends and the world starts we cant know for sure.

And through investigating that we see that there is really no borders... but we cant get to any satisfying answer because even if we did see a defined border or a sign that said "here does the mind end, you are now entering the real world", it would be a thought in the mind..

But if we take away the mind the world disappears. It happens every night in dreamless sleep.
And if you imagine that the world would disappear, i mean the whole universe would disappear, what would be left for the mind to see?

Funny coincidence that they are linked to the grade that they are totally dependant on each other, isnt it?

And.. when we are investigating like this.. what is the mind/what is the world, we have to question what we already know about it all.
And what is "all that we already know"?
It is the mind of course.

So if we want answers we cant go and ask the mind because all thats up there is what we already know.

My take on it is that awareness is the experiencer and the mind is the experience.

Agreed!

I love exploring this!

I posted something in the Cocktail Lounge about Helen Keller.

For Helen, being blind and deaf, nothing existed for her until she ran into it, felt it
with her body. So, for Helen, the tree falling in the woods didn't make a sound.

Nothing exists unless and until there is an observer, with senses in order to perceive them,
and a place for them to be held as known, the mind.

_________________
Ego schmeego.

voidsurfer wrote:

dobro wrote:

I might have come across an answer to my own question this morning in 'I Am That'.

Somebody asks Nisargadatta:

Q: Surely there is a factual world common to us all.

N: The world of things of energy and matter? Even if there *were* such a common world of things and forces, it is not the world in which we live. Ours is a world of feelings and ideas, of attractions and repulsions, of scales of values, of motives and incentives; a mental world altogether.

So when he says 'mind creates the world', I think I would express the same idea this way: "My mind creates a subjective experience of the world which really distorts the reality of it."

Whatcha think?

Its a nice idea! But where does the idea exist? In the mind of course.
This is a really deep question and Id like to explore it with you.

Can you experience anything outside of the mind?

Sure, no problem.

	voidsurfer wrote:
	This question of course insists that we ask, What is the mind?

Yeah, good question. I don't know, but I'd say it has a lot to do with sensations, emotions, and thoughts. As for consciousness, I'd say that's beyond mind. In deep meditation, there's little or nothing but consciousness - no thoughts arise, no emotions arise, sensations are faded - only consciousness is present. But if you want to call that no-thought, no-emotion, no-sensation experience 'deep mind', well I'd be okay with that. I don't care what you call things as long as we're agreed on what it is we're attaching labels to.

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	But if we take away the mind the world disappears.

Look at the person sleeping next to you in bed. The world has disappeared for them, but not for you. That 'disappearing' you talk about is subjective, not objective.

	Quote:
	So if we want answers we cant go and ask the mind because all thats up there is what we already know.

Yeah, this whole conversation is taking place in mind.

	Quote:
	My take on it is that awareness is the experiencer and the mind is the experience.

As long as you don't think about it, yeah, I'd buy that lol. It's mind that creates the division you name. The division doesn't exist really though, right? And when you go beyond thought and emotion and sensation in meditation, there is just NOW HERE AWARE ONE. No divisions. Just being.

Last edited by dobro on Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

	Claudia wrote:
	Nothing exists unless and until there is an observer, with senses in order to perceive them, and a place for them to be held as known, the mind.

That's what Nisargadatta seems to be saying, amazingly. But I'm not sure if he actually means that. Let's stop thinking about this in terms of me and you perceiving stuff. Let's just say the universe perceives. So when the universe isn't perceiving, does that mean it has ceased to exist? I don't think so. A sleeping universe is still a universe.

You and I are the universe, the one. Consciousness made manifest in form.

Yes, nonduality and quantum physics overlap.

_________________
Ego schmeego.

dobro wrote:

	Claudia wrote:
	Nothing exists unless and until there is an observer, with senses in order to perceive them, and a place for them to be held as known, the mind.

That's what Nisargadatta seems to be saying, amazingly. But I'm not sure if he actually means that. Let's stop thinking about this in terms of me and you perceiving stuff. Let's just say the universe perceives. So when the universe isn't perceiving, does that mean it has ceased to exist? I don't think so. A sleeping universe is still a universe.

Does anything exist if it isnt percieved?
Its a powerful question.. does anything exist outside of awareness?

Play with this idea:

The universe exists in you.
The universe can appear and disappear within you.
You are the foundation where its all happening.
You are the screen where the tv-show is played.
Whatever happens on the screen doesnt affect it, it remains the same through comedies and through dramas.

The key to understand these sort of things is to let go of what you know and ask the question without a bunch of guidelines of how it should be.

If you enjoy looking at these sort of mindfucks (sry but its the best description i know of it lol lol

) i can reccomend you a writer called Leo Hartong and his book Awakening to the dream.

perhaps the question to ask is "who wants to know"

and with that you can feel the stillness

_________________
Life is too important to be taken seriously lachen lachen

	voidsurfer wrote:
	...Does anything exist if it isnt percieved? Its a powerful question.. does anything exist outside of awareness?...

Just what exactly is the reflection of the moon on the still surface of a lake?

Does it exist, and where? big grin

_________________
One day, I felt just a hair's breadth from the deepest sorrow.
Then I reminded myself that I was a hair's breadth from exquisite joy.
After a deep breath, I moved on.

	Claudia wrote:
	... nonduality and quantum physics overlap.

Oh, you're turning me on with that kind of talk! lol

_________________
One day, I felt just a hair's breadth from the deepest sorrow.
Then I reminded myself that I was a hair's breadth from exquisite joy.
After a deep breath, I moved on.

_________________
Ego schmeego.

	Claudia wrote:
	... nonduality and quantum physics overlap.

Oh, you're turning me on with that kind of talk! lol

_________________
One day, I felt just a hair's breadth from the deepest sorrow.
Then I reminded myself that I was a hair's breadth from exquisite joy.
After a deep breath, I moved on.

_________________
Ego schmeego.